The Triple C Project

Stop Sacrificing Your Soul: The More You Give, The More They'll Take

• Ryan Spence

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Have you ever felt like you've been burning the candle at both ends, only to realize you're running on empty? 

Imagine giving your all at work, only to find yourself exhausted and underappreciated. This episode tackles the harsh realities of unchecked giving and the misleading narrative that relentless hard work will lead to inevitable rewards. 

Drawing from my BigLaw experiences, I expose how the promise of promotion often translates to more work for less immediate gain. 

Learn how to recognise these dynamics and make informed and intentional decisions that align with your personal and professional goals.

Balancing a high-stakes career with personal life is no easy feat, and it often demands tough conversations and clear boundaries. 

Reflecting on a particularly grueling work experience, I reveal the challenges of negotiating workplace flexibility and the pushback that often ensues. 

This episode emphasises the importance of visualising your ideal life and making strategic changes to achieve it. By setting boundaries and having crucial conversations, you can take control of your life and ensure you preserve time for yourself, your loved ones and the things that matter. 

Listen to the end, where I break down 4 steps you can take to build boundaries and stop sacrificing your soul. 

What's your one takeway from this episode? Send a text & let me know

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Speaker 1:

And so one of the things that came out in one of the stories that I was talking about is this idea that if you're not careful, if you don't set up boundaries and implement and maintain those boundaries, then you're going to keep giving, and the more that you give, the more that they'll take. You're listening to the Circle C Project. Take You're listening to the Triple C Project. Welcome to the Triple C Project, the podcast that helps you gain clarity, boost confidence, build courage so you can live life lit. I'm your host, ryan Spence, the Big Lord Rocker, life coach, author, speaker, lover of hoodies, hip-hop and big, hairy, audacious goals. If you're tired of living the life you think you should want, and ready to start living the life you do want, this podcast will help you get from where you are to where you really want to be. So now we're friends. I invite you to grab a drink, take a seat and allow me to guide you towards living a life that's lit. This is episode 104 of the Triple C Project, and I'm your host, ryan Spence, which, if you listen to the intro, you'll know that, but if you're like me and you sometimes skip intros, you wouldn't have done so now you do Great. Well, this week I don't know what I'm doing there. This week I want to open up with inspiration. That's not the topic of today's episode, but I want to open up with it because I don't think we can ever have too much inspiration. We need to do something with that inspiration, otherwise it just hangs and we still stay stuck where we are. But I feel inspiration sometimes gets a bad rap. And inspiration is the thing that relights the fire inside of us. It's the thing that sparks you up, that gets you excited, that starts to make you want to do something and believe that you can do something. And I talked in another episode about how, when I went to do my continuing professional development um, as a coach back in early May, how that week just re reignited something inside of me and really fired me up. And in that, from that firing up, I've got a shitload done. And not only that, it's uh, it's created this, another shift in inside of me and another way of um, uh, another sort of evolution, I think of not just me but of of the business and a ton of ideas that I'm slowly working through to execute. But what I thought as I was going through this um inspired process. I guess for want of a better word is I want to fire you up. I mean, I want to fire people up and I feel I do that anyway, particularly when I work with my clients one-to-one and also in this podcast. But sometimes a lot of that is about giving you tools and strategies as well, and I hope that they are inspirational to some extent.

Speaker 1:

But the bare inspirational, motivational not just quotes, but statements, ideas, frameworks I feel that I just felt that they could be more of them. I felt that they were needed more in the world, and so back on the 15th of May, I started something over on Instagram you can find me on Instagram at. I am underscore Ryan Spence and what I started was 30 days of inspo, or 30 days of inspiration, and the idea was that for 30 days straight, I was going to share an inspirational quote and then also a caption to kind of dive deeper into that quote or a story around that quote. And these aren't just sort of generic quotes that I've taken from people. These are quotes that are based on my own body of work and my own experiences. So the sentiment may some of the sentiments may be things you've heard before, but probably not heard them in the way that I have said them, the way that I have quoted them and also the stories that I tell to sort of support them or what inspired the quotes are obviously going to be unique as well, because they're my stories and my ideas. So if you haven't checked them out, if you're not following me on instagram, um, I invite you to go ahead and do so because, as I said, we could all use more inspiration in our life, and at least one of those quotes I know is is going to fire you up or make you think about something differently, and maybe it's the thing that you need to take that next step that you've been holding back from, or to help you start to reconnect with some of the dreams, the desires, the ideas that you had but that you let go or didn't think were for you. So go ahead at I am underscore Ryan Spence over on Instagram and check it out. 30 days of inspiration. Uh, today, as I record, this was day 22. Um, and I also posted my first reel in a long time today to kind of talk a little bit more about the thinking behind today's quote. So go ahead and check that out, get yourself inspired, reignite your spark. And, yeah, let's create our lit life, shall we? Okay, now to today's episode.

Speaker 1:

So I'm currently in the process of writing my second book and for those of you who've been long-time listeners will know that this is a process that started a while ago now. So, unlike book one, which happened relatively quickly, this one is this one's what I call my difficult second album. It's, it's taken a little bit more time and I'm way behind the self-imposed deadlines that I had. But CLIV, it is what it is and it will get done when it gets done, and that's just the way it is. But that's not what I'm here to talk about today.

Speaker 1:

But what I am here to talk about is that, in the process of writing a book, what I love is the stories that start to come back to mind, things that I either haven't thought about for a long time or I haven't thought about in that particular way. And these stories come out and then they're used to support some of the tools, the strategies that I'm sharing in the book, to kind of show how things work and how things happen and why I believe, what I believe and how what I believe I also believe can help you. That was a lot of beliefs, and so one of the things that came out in one of the stories that I was talking about is this idea of the fact that if you're not careful, if you don't set up boundaries and implement and maintain those boundaries, then you're going to keep giving, and the more that you give, the more that they'll take that you give, the more that they'll take. So you have to be very careful and very intentional about what you give and how you give and about the boundaries that you set up from the start. And this is not an episode to tell you that, yeah, this is just easy. You just tell everyone you're leaving at five o'clock and you do it and that's great. That's not what I'm saying, because I know from experience that it isn't that easy. But it's even harder if you haven't intentionally given thought as to what it is that you want, how you want to structure your life and what it is you need from your employer, your boss, your place of work in order to be able to do that. Because if you don't know what you're asking for, you can't ask for it and you won't get it, and you're always going to be on this hamster wheel, feeling out of control.

Speaker 1:

But coming back to what I want to talk about today, when you know that the more you give, the more that they will take, when you understand that it actually isn't depressing, it sets you free, because knowing that can then allow you to figure out how you want to navigate. It can allow you to start to learn the rules of the game. You see, we're sold the narrative that we have to keep putting in work, sacrificing our time and our relationships and our wellbeing, and if we just do that it will lead us to the promised land the status, the promotions, the bonuses, the status, the promotions, the bonuses. And we're told that if we just suck up the bullshit now for an indeterminate period of time, eventually the rewards will come and they'll say to you this is what I did and didn't do me any harm.

Speaker 1:

Anytime that you try to question the logic of how you can possibly do a good job when you're knackered all the time, you're exhausted, you have no downtime, or when you're being bullied by an aggressive partner or manager, or when you're laid up in your sickbed but you can't properly rest and recuperate because the show must go on, the deal must sign, and, beyond all of that, if you then get to what they call quote unquote the promised land, you meet this realization that the reward is actually to work even harder for less money. In a sense, um, if you're talking about big law, because for a lot of big firms you will go from your senior associate or counsel to become partner. But you'll be a salaried partner and you'll actually be paid less than you were in the role you were in before you became that salaried partner. And it's only years down the line, now, when you reach the equity and you start to climb that equity ladder, that you actually start to see the improvement in monetary rewards. But again, you're still making a whole ton of sacrifices in that intervening period. So the reward initially is to work even harder for less money before you can reach that milestone. But we do it right Because that's the blueprint. We're not shown that there is an alternative way, that there is another way, and so we don't believe that there is an alternative way, that there is another way, and so we don't believe that there is.

Speaker 1:

And if you dare to start to question whether you want this or say that I don't think I want to do all of that to get to there, then your commitment is brought into question. If you don't play the game or you're told that you just can't hack it. You know, like many, so many others before you, and if you still decide, okay, I am just going to suck it up, I'm going to give into the bullshit, I'm going to give absolutely everything I have in exchange for the promise of these rewards that are there to come. And then if you don't get to where they told you that you would get to through no fault of your own, then you're discarded as not partnership material, not management material, or, almost even worse, you're strung along and told ah, you were so close, maybe next year. I know people that were told that for three, four, five years and then ultimately they were told if you just move to some far flung office somewhere that no one else wanted to go, then you go there, we can make you partner there and you'd be partner there for a while, and then we can kind of bring you back in, like they were really sort of strung along and sold, sold a lie really. But they are sold that lie so that the firm, the company can eke out those last few dregs of your soul before they kick you to the curb Like a bad habit. Okay, now I might have painted you might feel that I painted um a bit of a draft picture there, but you'll also know that if you're in that world, or been in that world, that this is a reality. I'm not making this up, and once you know this and I didn't know this as a junior lawyer, I only found this out over a number of years but once you know this, you can decide if and how you want to play the game.

Speaker 1:

Now, as I said, I bought into the narrative hook line and sinker. You know I was so happy to get my training contracts at the firm and to eventually qualify although that wasn't without its hurdles and to start to progress in my career that I just bought into that. I did everything. I often put work first. You know the idea of having to cancel something because of of a deal which is really exciting and potentially going to be in the papers was was quite a thrill. You know, having to fly off on business trips or things like that was quite exciting, and so I didn't question the presenteeism culture, you know, and I love the plaudits that I gained for my work. I love the relationships that I built with my clients. I love my ability to build and maintain those relationships and, by all accounts, I thought I was flying, but it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough to stop me, to stop my commitment being brought into question, and that's kind of the crux of what I want to share today. I want to share to you an example, an example of me giving everything, um, for a deal, and then sort of the, the thanks I got later for that and how my general approach to work and my general character was brought into question.

Speaker 1:

So I remember a deal that I was on and the time frame was was brutal, pretty brutal even by big law standards, and I ran the whole thing alone. So let me tell you the story and obviously, client confidentiality and all of that. There were details I can't share, but I'm going to give you a general overview and this, a lot of this, will be familiar to to of you who are listening. So 6pm on a Wednesday. This is when I was in Singapore and we got instructed on a deal at 6pm on a Wednesday evening. Okay, fine, but this deal had to close by Saturday morning, singapore time. So 6 pm on a Wednesday. We were instructed and the deal had to close Saturday morning, singapore time. Ok, not a lot of time, right? So we received the first round of documents that Wednesday evening, the first round of documents that Wednesday evening, and it was.

Speaker 1:

It was a big, quite high profile deal. It involved multiple jurisdictions and therefore a shit ton of documents. Um, but anyway. Um, receive the documents. Well, I didn't receive the documents till I went home. We got instructed at six. I went home to have dinner when the documents came through. Then I started to review them. So I started to review until early morning, so turn around 2am I think. I was like I called it a night.

Speaker 1:

Next day, thursday, got up, was back in the office at my desk at 9am. Now, being at my desk at 9am is not usual for me in my whole career. I was not a morning person, but there was a lot to do and I knew that and I knew the importance of the deal. So, although I finished reviewing documents at 2am, I got up and was back in the office at my desk by 9am. Back at it. And on that Thursday I then also started the process of coordinating, coordinating with colleagues in other jurisdictions whose assistance I needed. So, colleagues in our Hong Kong office and in our Amsterdam office because I need them to assist on the documents that were governed by those laws.

Speaker 1:

So I took on that project management role and then continued my sole role of just reviewing and dealing with shit. So the first day I worked through until 7 pm, went home, had dinner and then again reviewed documents through the night until around 2 am again, and then Friday so remember, we've got the docs. On Wednesday, worked until 2am, in at 9am on Thursday, worked until seven back home, reviewed until 2am Friday morning. Friday morning back in the office for 9am again, and this one was epic and not in a good way. So the deal had to close by Saturday. So Friday was manic Shitload of documents, comments coming through, reviewing revised documents, managing our colleagues in various jurisdictions, liaising with our clients to make sure all the necessary was done on their side so that this thing could close, and just taking far too many phone calls, wading through tons of emails and, yeah, like I say, just just drowning in paper from all the docs that I was reviewing.

Speaker 1:

And, as I said, it was a European deal and it had to close by Saturday morning, singapore time, and there was a huge wrinkle which I'm not going to go into here. I share with my students when I kind of teach at the university, but it's not really relevant to the story here. The only thing that is relevant is that I was in at Friday at 9am and I left the office at 7, I think it was 7.30am on Saturday morning. The deal closed, got in the cab, went home, drank a glass of water and fell into bed Absolutely exhausted. So I basically had worked through pretty much from Wednesday to Saturday, exception of a few hours of sleep in between. And I was supposed to be taking part in a race on the Sunday, a race that I'd signed up for and had been training for. But pretty much once I got in, crashed out, woke up, had something to eat, was back in bed at 7am, slept right through Sunday morning. There was no way that race was going to happen, so it basically took out my week.

Speaker 1:

Now, occupational hazards, you might say. And you may also say you kind of knew this is what you signed up for. I'm not going to argue with any of that. I mean, yeah, it's bullshit, because how effective can you be on so little sleep in such an accelerated timeframe when you're the sole person running a transaction, but you know I I'll buy that, you'll buy that, okay. So, bearing in mind that and this is just one deal I'm talking about, this is probably I'm talking about here, but I wanted to kind of share that so I can contrast with the. But I wanted to kind of share that so I can contrast with the next thing that I'm going to share with you. So I was trying to remember the exact timeline here, but I can't remember how much longer after that deal, this, this took place.

Speaker 1:

But anyway, my first son was born at this time, so, and I wanted to be able to be home at least once a week, just to be home for bed and bath time, right, and there's no guarantee in big law that you're going to get out when you're supposed to get out. So I wanted to work from home one day a week just to kind of ensure that that would happen. Now there was a whole hoo-ha about working from home in in the local office, even though there was a apparently a global policy partners in the local office. Many of them didn't like it at all, but I'd managed to negotiate. Working from home one day a week, um, so what happened is the day before I would just send an email to my immediate team my PA, the partner and the other associate to say working from home tomorrow, asking my PA to divert my emails and just letting everyone know I'd be at home but I'd be available. This was standard practice Until one day I got a reply to that email from the partner basically saying we need to talk.

Speaker 1:

And I was like what the fuck? No one likes to receive a. We need to talk email. And predictably, the anxiety started to rise about what that could possibly mean. Talk about what, what had I done? What had I missed? You know? Cause you think that you've done something wrong and it's the worst possible email you can send somebody. So don't, don't send people a. We can talk email. Either send them an email saying we need to talk about X and give them some context, or just catch them when you see them next, or call them. Don't send that email, um, but anyway, I couldn't think of anything I'd done wrong.

Speaker 1:

So, um, kind of went about my evening, went in the next day, then was called into the partner's office and, um, let's just say it went downhill from there, um, and so again, I won't recount the entire conversation. I talk a bit more about it in the upcoming book. But effectively, what happened is I was told that because I'd worked from home on that particular day, and it was a day when all the partners were out, they were at a partner conference, which, okay, so what? That apparently was an issue. Then I was trying to kind of be diplomatic and I said, well, look, I mean I kind of negotiated this and I just want to work from home one day a week so I can be home for my kid, my new kid else here has kids. What makes you so special? As he waved his hand in the general direction of the corridor where multiple male partners sat and I was kind of like what the fuck, like, what the hell, has that got to do with it? And that's when I got I got pissed, um, and again I was trying to keep my cool, and so I kind of responded in the vein of like, well, well, look, you know, the work still gets done, clients are happy, there's been no complaints and no one can question my commitment.

Speaker 1:

And this is where I really got angry, because the response to that was what people have been, and so what I think had happened is that I don't know what happens in those partners meeting, but a combination of me not being at my desk at 9am, as I mentioned before, not something that I was, I was known for, but I mean I I said in the previous story 2am or whatever then if you're not at your desk at 9am and like people are giving you shit for that, then that's, that's really fucking weird. But also, they'd obviously been talking about this work from home thing as well, and rather than stand up for me and make the argument that I had fucking great relationships with clients, the work was always getting done, I was doing really well and so everyone needed to just back off. This was then being relayed to me as your commitment is being brought into question, as if I needed to then do something about that. And to cap it all off, when the idea of not being at my desk at 9am was mentioned and I said, well, I've been at the firm for I can't remember how long at that time, but years between London and Singapore, and I was never at my desk at 9am, like I mean, but I was always there when I needed to be there I was told that he was disappointed in my attitude. So I'm not. So I'm not going um dwell further into my feelings around that and bitch and moan about that, because that's not really the point here, but the point of telling this story is to contrast it with the first one, which is that, no matter how much you give, you will always be expected to give more, and what you give will never be deemed to be enough. And so, if you know that, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to just keep giving to whoever wants it until there's literally nothing left of you, or are you going to take some action? And what action are you going to take? And here's what I suggest you should do. Here's the action that I suggest you should start thinking about taking, and they won't be any surprise to you if you listen to the show.

Speaker 1:

The first action you need to take is think well, what? What do I want my life to be? How do I want to live it? So start to think about what do you want your day, your week, to look like? What are the things that you would like to do that you aren't currently doing, maybe? What are the hobbies you would like to take part in? I mean, do you have kids. Do you want to be around, to put them to bed at night, to have dinner with them, to take them to afterschool activities, to sit and read with them? Do you have a partner? What do you want to do with them? Do you have a partner? What do you want to do with them? Do you want to have a dedicated night a week where you can go on date night or where you can sit and watch Netflix together and chat about things and have conversations?

Speaker 1:

Start to really get granular about what you want your life to look like and how you want it to be. Then look at how your life is now and look at what's stopping you from doing that. And if it's work, if it's other people's demands, then start to ask yourself in the grand scheme of your life, where do they sit? And then start to think about what. If I want to do these things, if I want to have this life, this vision of life I painted for myself, what do I need to do? What are the things I need to change or what are the things I need to stop doing in order for that to happen, what do I need to ask for and who do I need to ask, and then you can start to take the actions necessary to put those boundaries in place, and so you can do the things that you want to do, so you can stop giving so much. You can actually preserve some for yourself and for the people who you want to give your time to. And so that can look like once you know that can look like saying to your boss okay, this is the. I do these particular things on these two nights of the week, so I need to leave at this time, unless there's a major emergency and something's on fire. This is kind of what I need, and you can start to then have that conversation, because you've identified what it is that you need and why you need it. So, therefore, you know what to ask for, rather than continuously complaining, like I used to, that you never get time to for me, for example, go to yoga class. You always have to cancel, or you never get time to go on holiday uninterrupted, or have your weekends uninterrupted. Once you know this is the problem this is how I'd like it to be. Instead, these are the things that need to happen in order for that to be the case Then you can start to ask for what you want, and then if you don't get what you want, if there is no compromise, there is no understanding, there is no empathy, then that's information that you can do something with.

Speaker 1:

You can determine whether do I want to stay here? Is this somewhere where I really want to be? And if it's not, then what do I need to do now in order to change that situation? What do I want to do instead? Or maybe you do like where you work, but maybe it's a case of I need to make a shift into a different department, into a different team, into a different office, and you can start to have those conversations, but if you do nothing, you're just going to keep giving and you're always going to be exhausted, you're going to be knackered, you're going to have that lethargy, you're going to feel stuck in that rut. None of that will ever change. So you need to get clear again. Surprise, it comes down to clarity. So what I want to leave you with in this episode is this I'm going to repeat it again the more you give, the more they will take. So get clear on how much you're prepared to give.

Speaker 1:

Second, get very clear on how you want your life to be. What are the things you want to fit into your life that currently you feel you cannot. Three, identify the reasons why your life is not currently the way you want it to be. What is stopping you from incorporating the things that you want to do to make it so? Four, once you've identified the blockers, the challenges, the obstacles, then you need to identify what you need to do to remove them, and that could be what do you action do you specifically need to take, unilaterally? Or it can be identifying who you need to have a conversation with and place boundaries around. Or, which is related to the second one, who do you need to have a conversation with and what do you need to ask them for? Do those points? Follow those points and then start to see what shifts for you. And again, after point four, if you don't get the response that you want, that is helpful for you, then point five is get clear about what you want to do about it instead how you, how, what are you going to do in order to get that life that you identified for yourself, that you want?

Speaker 1:

Okay, that's it for this week. I'm still working on that story. That's because that story, parts of that story, are in the in the upcoming book, so you may get a little more detail than what I shared here. But, yeah, I just felt that, as I was writing it as I was well, as I was rewriting it, that this was something which I wish that I'd known and I wish that I'd given more thought to, because I could have taken things in a in a different direction, and things that I had that I had said no to because I was putting work first. I could have just said yes to and enjoyed. But you live and learn and through my learning, I'm sharing my experience with you so that you can avoid some of the things that I did. Okay, that's it for me this week, episode 104. Thank you, as always, for being here.

Speaker 1:

Week episode 104. Thank you, as always, for being here and I want to invite you to work with me to gain that clarity. I want to invite you to apply for a strategy session, a free strategy session, 60 minutes. In 60 minutes. In that session, at the end of it, you're going to be thinking about yourself differently, your life differently, what's possible for you. It's going to be a powerful session and whether we then go on to work together over the initial 12 weeks of my coaching program, my high performance coaching program. That hour is going to shift something for you, and if that hour shifts something for you, then imagine what those 12 weeks are going to do. But we can come to that on the call. But I invite you to apply.

Speaker 1:

Don't sit and suffer in silence. Don't keep giving of yourself and wonder when it's going to end. Don't remain stuck in that rut of getting up like Groundhog Day, day in, day out, doing the same shit and thinking how did my life come to this? You don't have to do that, and that's why I do the work that I do to show you that you don't have to do that and show you what else is possible for you, specifically for you. So head to IamRyanSpencecom slash, apply and apply for your strategy session. I can't wait to talk to you. I live for this work, literally live for this work because I've been in those situations and I know what I would have killed for if I'd known it was available to me at the time. So IamRyanSpencecom slash, apply. I can't wait to speak to you on your strategy session and help you get from living a life of lethargy to living life lit.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for tuning in to the triple c project. In the spirit of the triple c, there's three things that you can do to support the show. Head to rate this podcastcom, slash triple c or over to your favorite podcast app and leave a review. Reviews really help people checking out shows to see what they can expect and how the show can help them. Second thing you can do share Share this episode, share a previous episode with a friend, someone who you feel could benefit from what I'm throwing down on this here show. And number three head to IamRyanSpencecom. Get on the mailing list. I'll be sharing news about the show, news about what I'm up to my new book start writing soon. So to be the first to be in the know, you need to get yourself on the list. Really appreciate you being here and until next week, stop living a life of lethargy. Start living life lit.