The Triple C Project
Are you sick of feeling like a stressed-out cog in a corporate wheel?
Are you tired of feeling stuck in the mental quicksand of the corporate grind?
Are you over simply surviving each day and only living for the weekend?
What if you could live the life you want, not the life you think you should want?
What if you approached every day with intention instead of mindlessly going through the motions?
What if you woke up feeling alive, living your life in thrival mode rather than survival mode?
How would your life be different? How would it change for the better?
In this podcast, life coach, yoga teacher and author Ryan Spence (aka #thebiglawdropout) shows how you can do all these things and more!
Ryan's mission is to help you gain clarity, boost confidence and build courage so you can live life lit!🔥
He does this by sharing stories and actionable tips and tools based on his experience of leaving an 11-year career in BigLaw to embark on a mission to help high-achieving professionals like you move from survival mode to thrival mode so you can break free of the same limiting beliefs and lethargy that kept him stuck for over 5 years.
Whether you're a BigLaw lawyer, corporate professional, or simply someone feeling stuck in a rut you need to get out of, this podcast will not only inspire you to take action to get from where you are to where you want to be, but give you the tools and strategies to sustainably do so.
Raw, unfiltered, with a smattering of F-bombs, Ryan's relatable hosting style has been likened to a chat with a friend at a bar.
So, get yourself a drink, grab a seat, and join the conversation.
The Triple C Project
Sheranne Wong - Yoga Saved My Life
Welcome to Episode 3 of The Yoga Den Podcast.
My guest on this week's show is yoga teacher, business founder & ex-corporate recruiter, Sheranne Wong.
Sheranne left her native Singapore to work in fashion in LA, recruitment in Hong Kong and study yoga in India, before returning to Singapore where she founded The Locomotive Co., a company focused on providing "A sustainable approach to workplace wellness."
In this wide-ranging discussion, Sheranne and I talk about many things including:
- how yoga saved her life;
- the importance of corporate wellness; and
- why taking a leap of faith is better than waiting for perfection.
With tons of interesting insights, the odd 'F' bomb and more than a few laughs, I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed recording.
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Links to stuff mentioned in this episode:
Embodied Enlightenment: https://www.amazon.sg/Embodied-Enlightenment-Living-Awakening-Moment/dp/1626258392
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Find Sheranne & The Locomotive Co. online:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sheranne/ https://www.instagram.com/thelocomotiveco
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thelocomotiveco
Website: https://www.thelocomotiveco.com/
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I feel sad for that me because, again, when I say yoga saved my life I literally mean it literally right? And it's sad to see the person I was before knowing yoga.
Ryan Spence:Welcome to The Yoga Den. Are you a stressed-out cog in the corporate wheel? Do you find yourself asking, What am I doing? and Why am I doing it? the The Yoga Den is the place for you. I'm your host, Ryan Spence, aka, the big low dropout, writer, yoga teacher, and your guide on the path to wellbeing through yoga. Yoga helped me find my purpose changed my mindset, and my life. In this podcast, I'll share how to live a life of intention, not reaction. Each week, I'll be talking to a variety of guests uncovering pearls of wisdom to help you figure out if where you;re heading is where you really wanna go. I won't find your purpose for you. But I'll help you plan the route. So sit back and grab a drink. I've been expecting you. Welcome to Episode Three of The Yoga Den Podcast. This week's guest is what's known as a yogipreneur, which if you've never heard the term before, and I hadn't until recently is someone who's both a yogi and an entrepreneur. Funny that. Sheranne Wong is a yoga teacher and founder of corporate wellness business, The Locomotive Co. Now living back in her native Singapore, in a previous life, Sheranne was a high powered corporate headhunter in Hong Kong. Having found yoga following a serious back injury while living in LA, Sheranne turned to yoga to help her through the stresses of corporate life in Hong Kong. Leaving the corporate life behind, Sheranne followed her calling and headed to India to gain her yoga teaching certification at the Himalayan Institute. Drawing on her own experiences of being a fast spinning cog in a corporate wheel, Sheranne saw the need for corporate employees to have access to wellness solutions within the workplace. And this led to the creation of The Locomotive Co., which provides a sustainable and holistic approach to workplace wellness. In this wide-ranging interview, Sheranne and I discuss many things, including, how yoga saved her life. Why just doing it and figuring it out as you go along is the best policy, and why her yoga retreat, which I attended, did not have a mandatory vegan menu. So grab your headphones, grab a drink, and let's do this. Okay, hey, Sheranne. Welcome to the Den, how you doing?
Sheranne:Good. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Ryan Spence:No problem. Good to have you on the show. So to kick off, I want to start with two things, which I haven't told you before. Okay. So for the benefit of the listeners, we first met when you came to teach yoga at the old law firm. I was at that. And, and then I then went on to one of the retreats that that the company, you run The Locomotive Co. ran in Bali? Yeah. It actually was at that retreat where the seeds were sown for starting my own Yoga and Wellness Business.
Sheranne:No way.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. So we, I mean, just sitting there, the setting was great, sort of, to being immersed in yoga was great. And then I don't know if you remember, but we we had a bit of a chat after lunch one of the days talking about your background and stuff. So, So yeah. So I have you to sort of partly thank for all that's going on right now.
Sheranne:That's actually so sweet. So glad to hear that.
Unknown:No
Ryan Spence:No problem. And then the second thing is that, yes. So when I first had the idea of doing the podcast, you're actually one of the first names on the list for that reason, your corporate background to yoga teacher, and now your focus on corporate wellness, just really chimed with me and kind of had an influence on on kind of what I want to do now. So with that, let's start by talking about your corporate journey. Like Where did you begin in the corporate world?
Sheranne:Yeah, so that's a that's a funny one, right? I never, ever thought of myself being in the corporate world. I used to be in fashion. That's what I went to school for in LA. And I was working in fashion magazine briefly in Singapore. And I just, it was a random kind of trip to Hong Kong where I didn't really want to be in Singapore at that time. And I was just like, right, I'm gonna pack up and move to Hong Kong and look for a job then. Not knowing what I was really looking for, and where that's going to take me. And I just started reaching out to people and kind of fell into headhunting. So I was an executive search within the fashion world. And that was kind of it. So I yeah, I was fully immersed into that whole world of recruitment. I'm living in Hong Kong for two years. And it was it was great. I liked it. I wouldn't say I loved it. It was lots of stresses. And I think at that time, my anxiety and stress levels were on an all time high. And my yoga journey had began years back in LA, because of my back surgery, which maybe we might talk about later. But I'm in Hong Kong, that's when my yoga journey started to deepen, just because of the amount of stress and anxiety I was in. I just felt like I needed yoga.
Ryan Spence:Yes, a common a common theme. I think a lot of people come to yoga to relieve stress. And although obviously, if you stay long enough, it's there's so much more to it than that. That's definitely seems to be the the gateway for many people. Absolutely. Okay, so you had two years in Hong Kong in the corporate world. But prior to that, you said you were in LA? And you mentioned your back surgery, which I have read about a little bit, but But what happened there? And then how did that then start your yoga journey?
Sheranne:Yes. So I mean, even this is a long one, even up till today, I'm still kind of like, you know, working on the trauma that happened to not just a body but even mentally. So what happened was, before I had moved to LA, I had a fall. It was just a really unfortunate fall, where I fell off the cart in an airport. Yeah, it's still something that I'm working on today. So, yep, but that injury kind of kicked off my yoga journey because I I didn't know what else to do. I couldn't go to the gym. I couldn't do much. And to be fair, in hindsight, I don't think yoga was the best thing for me physically after, you know, a such a traumatic injury. But that was my first my first ever yoga class was a studio right next to. You know, my apartment in downtown LA.
Ryan Spence:Wow.
Sheranne:Yeah.
Ryan Spence:And what was that first yoga class, what type of yoga was it?
Sheranne:I want to say it was even a vinyasa class. It was a hot yoga class. And because that studio was called yoga and spinning, and it was just super intense. And I used to play competitive netball. I used to go to gym all the time. I used to run a lot. So I was super active. I remember fucking hating the class. I was just like, get me the fuck out of here. It's so slow. It's so boring. I don't want to deal with this. I'm sweating balls and just like, I hate this. So my first yoga class, absolutely hated it. And you know, to everyone who's listening. Like I hear you. I feel you if you're starting yoga, and you're like, Oh my god, get me out of this. I know how that feels. It's normal. It's okay. It'll get better
Ryan Spence:I know it's hilarious, isn't it? Because for so many people, yoga teachers and sort of experienced practitioners, they hated their first class. So it's like, why did you go back? But they're, it's like torture.
Sheranne:Yeah, there's some maybe we're all masochist. So you know, I don't know. But there's something about it. And I think that's, that's the little magic. That's a spark that has been ignited. Right. And it sometimes it takes a long time, it takes years to get to the point of maybe the mental benefits of it, or the spirituality of it. But I think just taking that first step, it can ignite something in you. And yeah, you just keep going back, even though the first class was basically torture.
Ryan Spence:And I think that's why you mentioned there in terms of taking time to get to the sort of the mental and spiritual side of it. Yeah. But actually, if you can go to do something, hate it, and keep going back, you're already building up that consistency, that discipline, that resilience right there, which is an amazing sort of tool that you don't even necessarily realise you're doing. Yeah. But so I've taken a few years down the line, and you've got your regular practice. And it's like, that's where it started. That's what began.
Sheranne:100%.
Ryan Spence:Cool. So Hong Kong, you were there for two years in this executive search role? I guess. I mean, I've been to Hong Kong a few times. It's very much work hard, play hard. Yeah, there's a lot going on. But that then also takes its toll. If you're working long hours, and you're then you're out all night, you're not getting enough sleep. It's really not good sort of physically and mentally. Yeah. So you said your yoga practice deepened in Hong Kong. What did that look like? How did you manage to fit that in with everything that was going on?
Sheranne:God, I think it you know, now I see it so clearly. But when I when I was in it, I couldn't see it. Right? All I knew was that it was my one hour to get the hell out of the office and just have time on my own, just to breathe, you know, and be away from the desk be away from all the shit that's going on in my head. Because, you know, some some of you might know what the recruitment is just such a money driven business. Right. And I it's basically nonstop. Um, and I think I didn't realise how much stress I was under. Until I realised I wasn't, you know, obviously, I wasn't sleeping. Well. I was terrified to wake up. I remember waking up in the morning, dreading the day, and it's just like, I'm terrified of what today is going to bring and that's scary. And then upon waking up, you know, you're going to the office and in Hong Kong, I mean, it's just it's intense, right? It feels so claustrophobic. Sometimes. There are rats running around, the street smells and then this is like seven in the morning. And you get there. You're like shit, here I am again. And it started to make me question why I'm doing what I'm doing. And, and I was so stressed out was all I wanted to do was to go to sleep. So that I don't think, right. And so I realised I might have been struggling with depression, obviously, anxiety and stress, it was a combination of all of it. And so going to yoga was my one hour of just Yeah, like, tune out time tune out and yet tune in, right. And it started off again, as a very physical practice. I you know, I loved the hot classes when I was in Hong Kong. I'm a very vinyasa based practitioner and teacher. I just love to move in and the breath. And that's when it happened. I was like, Oh my god, the moment I realised, the moment I started to pay attention to my breath, which is a really weird thing, because for the longest time, I feel like we're not aware of the breath. Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think there was a day where it just kind of clicked and I was like, shit, wait, what? Like, I'm aware of my breath. Like, you know, this is real. And this is what's keeping me alive. It sounds so silly. Like, this is great. So, yeah, so I was practising every single day, I would not miss a class because that was my saving grace. Um, and, yeah, and then I started, you know, speaking teachers then. And they've had such a profound impact on me whether they know it or not, like, I remember all the teachers that I've been to in Hong Kong, there are times where Yeah, I've just only seen them in passing, or we'll have a brief Hi, and bye, but they've impacted my life so greatly, and that weaved the path into me teaching. I've never thought I was going to end up teaching ever. But here I am.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, it's funny, because Yoga is such a such a teacher driven thing. Yeah. Like you can go to a class. And if you don't resonate with the teacher, you don't go back. And once you find that teacher you resonate with, you just find that. It just works. Everything just clicks into place. Yeah. And I mean, what will come to your teacher training in a second, but I know for mine, I still and my teacher said this at the time, he said, you'll go out there and you'll you'll you'll be minimes but the idea is that you eventually develop your own style. And I see that the way that I say things and direct things is very much from the teacher. Because the teachers has such a profound effect on you, right? And and that's kind of what's going to influence your practice going forward.
Sheranne:Absolutely. And just trying to find your own voice. And that's what's beautiful, beautiful about the teaching journey, and also an understanding that as much as our teachers, we're also still students, right. And we're constantly learning.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, yeah, we're never never perfect. It's always, always a practice. Yeah. So at what point did you decide you wanted to teach?
Sheranne:Um, so this is when I kind of realised that Hong Kong was in it for me anymore. Um, you know, I got offered another role in recruitment. And it just didn't feel right. As I do. I want to take up a job where I'm not excited about and Hong Kong, the magic kind of wore off, I think, after two years of living there, I was like, right, I don't think I'm gonna settle down here. What's next? And at that point, I wanted to move to Sydney. And I was talking to my teacher, then Tanya, Tanya Barton. And I was like, you know, I might move to Sydney, or either that or I'll move back to Singapore and, and open a studio, because opening a studio is not easy, right? Every yoga teacher, exactly. It was like, okay, we're just gonna, like, go back to Singapore, and not knowing what the markets like, just open a fucking studio. That didn't happen, obviously. And Tanya was like, Hey, why don't you go to your teacher training? That never once crossed my mind at that point? I'm just because I felt like, you know, as a student, you're like, I need to be able to do all of this stuff before I can be a teacher.
Ryan Spence:I can't do a handstand. I can't get my leg behind my head.
Sheranne:Exactly. And I was like, I can't I still can't do a handstand. And it's fine. And that's, that's not what Yoga is all about. Right? So she was the one that was like, No, it doesn't matter. I think you're ready, you should go look into it. And I was like, Okay, well, let me just go look into it. At that point, I had nothing holding me back in Hong Kong, Singapore, or in Sydney. I was like, I'm just gonna do a bunch of research. But I knew that I wanted to go to India. Okay, I wanted to go to the route and origine of where yoga stemmed from. So I did a bunch of research. And you know, Tonya gave me a few like, tips or whatever, to choose the right course. And she goes, you know, you'll actually just know it, you keep coming back to that teacher, you keep coming back to this course, something in you will show you the way, right, so I did a bunch of research and all that stuff. And I finally found the course that I I ended up going to and it was at the Himalayan yoga Institute in cool Valley. And it was life changing. It sounds so cliche. And I think like everybody who's done, a yoga teacher training course, is life changing. And it's incredible. And for me, that was a pivotal moment where you know, my whole perspective on life, and what, what we really need or want is just different. I was living in an ashram for a month, and everyday are waking up at five in the morning, doing your sets on your meditation, your chanting, and then going out throughout the day with obviously your practice and your theories and whatnot. And to be honest, even at that time, I didn't know if I wanted to teach. I just knew that I wanted to dig deeper, I wanted to go deeper and figure this whole yoga thing out, you know, um, and then along the way, I just realised, no, like, this is this is it, I think a part of me was like, how do I bring this forward? How do I now show people how yoga and meditation has literally saved my life? You know, I was depressed and anxious. And I mean, being terrified to wake up. And that changed. And, yeah, so I think when I just realised what I wanted to do, what my purpose was, was to try and bring the sport to help others through the practice of yoga and meditation. That's when it clicked. And I was like, I need to teach. I have to, and I don't know where it's going to be. But that's what I have to do. So, that was in that, you know, that kicked off the teaching journey. And, you know, I think like, everyone after a teacher training, you're like, Okay, well, what know? What's next? Um, and, yeah, so then I had already booked my flight to Australia. I went to Sydney. Actually, that's when I went to home yoga. That's when I met Blair [Hughes].
Ryan Spence:Okay. Yeah.
Sheranne:And, and we actually had a chat because I was looking for a mentor then. And I was like, oh, like, you know, maybe it could be my mentor or whatever. But I left shortly after, because it didn't feel right. So it just didn't feel right for me, you know, coming from the ashram and kulu Valley, and then moving to Sydney, which Yeah, exactly. I was like, I just didn't feel right. So I kind of just took that time to visit different studios. And yeah, I actually did an interview with home yoga, but then they weren't sponsoring visas. Always For yoga teachers, and then Christmas 2016 came around. And that was when I just realised, you know, maybe I should just go back to Singapore and figure out this whole business stuff not having a plan. And I wasn't gonna open a studio, but I was like, I'll go back to Singapore and figure it out. And that's when the birth of Locomotive happened.
Ryan Spence:Wow!, so, I'm gonna come to Locomotive. But one thing that you said, I want to go back to, I think it's really important is, you said yoga changed your life? Yeah. And it's funny. I've heard that phrase a number of times. Yeah. And I've said it myself. And when I was recording the, the intro for the podcast, I say in there, and I did sort of thing. But people gonna think that's too dramatic. But it's true. And so it's interesting that you say that, that that as well, that transformation of going through the training. But even before the training, it just kind of really changes your whole mindset, the whole in Hong Kong, saying that it's all about more money. It's all about getting more, more more. Yep. And you get sucked in a lot on that. Yes, I could train you just ride along. And but once you discover yoga, you realise that actually know that that's not what life's about. And that's what I want my life to be about.
Sheranne:Exactly. And I think sometimes these shifts are so small and organic, that in the moment, you don't actually see it. It's actually hard to tell, you know, it's hard to tell which specific moment you realise it's not about the money. It's not about all this external stuff. I'm even thinking about it. Now, it's hard to point out just one moment, because I think it was an ongoing journey that created this shift. So yeah, I think, I don't know, I've met a lot of students, and who get frustrated with that journey. They get it, they get very anxious to get impatient. You're like, especially with awesomeness, right? The physical part of it, you're like, I can't get into this, why? And it gets very frustrating. But these are all part of the journey as well. These are all the learning lessons, you know, and teaching you how to be patient, be patient with yourself being kind to yourself. And so I think that that's where it's so beautiful. Sometimes I think about the yoga journey, and I get very emotional because I'm like, holy shit, I can't imagine my life. Without it. Yeah, it would have been a catastrophe.
Ryan Spence:Oh, I can definitely relate to that.
Sheranne:Yeah.
Ryan Spence:Okay. So, how long after getting a certification in India did you teach? do you teach? When was your first class? And what was it? Like? Was it like that first time stepping into a room as a yoga teacher?
Sheranne:Oh, God. Um, I think I started teaching. Obviously, during training, you're, you're doing all these classes and stuff. I think my very first mock class was in Sydney. Okay, I'm at home yoga. It was terrifying. And I think mock classes till today scares the shit out of me. Right? It's worse than a proper class. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the first one. And then coming back here. I think I to Singapore, I was just incredibly lucky with people who were just so supportive. So I immediately I had private clients. And they were, you know, these are friends or friends of friends who just wanted to support my journey, which I'm so thankful for, because I wouldn't be here without all the fat. So I have private sessions. And then I had a friend who was a yoga teacher, he was in banking. At that time, he wanted to start his own business as well. He was teaching at Yoga Lab here in Singapore. And he was like, Hey, you know, I, I know the owners, maybe I can put you in touch. So I started to teach a Yoga Lab, actually, very briefly before at a smaller studio called Yoga Instinct. was ran by Brandon. But um, yeah, I mean, those mock classes, it, it's scary. And it's nerve wracking. But I think the moment you get through with it, you're like, Okay, well, that was in, you know, that wasn't too bad. And the first live class, I think you're just a bunch of nerves, right? And you're like, right, okay, all these practitioners are super advanced and whatever. And this is my first class. I don't know what they're gonna think of me. So that whole like, self doubt, and whatever else comes into play, and you just gotta roll with it. And do do your best. And that's all you can do and be as human as you can. Right? I think that's what people relate to. Even if you fuck it up, you fuck up sequence or whatever, like, just roll with it laugh and say, Well, I don't know. I messed it up or I'm hungover or something and the students are at they're gonna be okay. Yeah. And, yeah, like, I learned so much for my students every single day. Every single class, I take something away. So, you know, there's still days where I go into a studio and like, yeah, I'm feeling a little bit off or like, I'm not really sure about this. But you just got to, again, own it and be as authentic as you can be. And I think students will know and students can sense it. That's what it is.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, that's, that's so true. And it's funny, because as you were talking through that, I could see the metaphor with anything. I mean, with me starting everything new. Now, it's very much that case of, you just have to do it. And when you do it, you'll figure it out. And you'll figure out what went well, what didn't go well. But if you don't start, you'll never happen.
Sheranne:Exactly.
Ryan Spence:And yeah, you mentioned mentioned Blair, I didn't know you knew Blair. Blair taught me on my yoga teacher training. Yeah. And he was very clear that the teacher training was setting you up to teach, and he wanted you to go out and teach. It wasn't about the theory, or the values important, but there is so much knowledge, you just have to kind of get out there, do it and learn as you go. And I think that that encouragement is really helped. Definitely me, but other students who are on the course with me, because a lot of them are now out there just teaching wherever they can teach. Yeah. So yeah, and anyone sort of listening out there, whatever you want to do, just just go out and do it. Yeah, figure it out. And you make you will make mistakes. But that's how you learn is meaning you get better and you get better and you get better.
Sheranne:Yeah, that's when the growth process happened. Exactly. And the more you put yourself out there, yes, you're going to get rejected, you're going to fail or you know, make mistakes, but it's better to do it and then learn from it than to just sit there wondering what if I've done it? And I think the best way for teachers or people who are maybe I don't know, you're listening, and you're like, oh, there's something in you that tells you you want to do a teacher training, or maybe you want to be a teacher, but you're unsure. Just give it a go. And the more you put yourself out there, the more you're going to learn and you won't regret it.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, well, that's the thing. You you, you'll regret not doing it. You won't regret doing it. Yeah. So well, yeah, whatever it is just head on out. Yeah. So that brings us like nicely on to The Locomotive Co. Yeah, so your your baby, your company. Yeah. So as I mentioned at the top of the show, I first came across you and the company when you came in to teach our law firm. And I think it's probably the first sort of corporate wellness business that I had encountered. corporate wellness was this thing that's sort of thrown around by law firms and corporates. You know, I mean, I'll leave it to to people who are listening to sort of decide whether or not they're really invested in your wellness. But I found it interesting. And I mean, I did I did most of the classes that you taught. But where did the idea come from? Was that from your time in Hong Kong, or was it related to that?
Sheranne:Yeah, I think I'm definitely in the whole the whole journey from from the start, back injury, stress, anxiety, and that, you know, tripling when I was in, in Hong Kong, it all played a role into starting the company, I think a big thing for me was raising mental health awareness. And just because I, prior to my, you know, my injury with my back, I did go through bouts of depression, you know, even suicidal thoughts and things like that, which, in hindsight, it's insane. I, I feel sad for that me. Because, again, when I say yoga saved my life, I literally mean literally, right? And it's sad to see the person I was before knowing yoga. And the thing is, when I was going through that, I just felt like there wasn't a safe space, right? I just didn't know much about stress or anxiety or depression. And it's just been an ongoing personal journey of going through that. And knowing that there are people out there who deal with the same things or even worse, and you know, I've heard so many stories throughout the years of people not making it right. And it breaks my heart to hear that. And so for me, when I came back, I was like, Okay, first of all, how do I just start teaching immediately? How do I create the most impact? And how do I raise mental health awareness through the journey of yoga meditation, because I've been through it, and I know it works. Yeah. And so I didn't really honestly, I didn't have a business plan. I mean, eventually I did. But it was kind of, okay, looking at what I wanted to bring to the community, and how I want to help people. I think a big thing for me and through my work right now is just to help people through what I know and creating that space where they can come and talk about whether it's pain or whether whatever They're struggling within their journeys to create that environment. And I think with corporates, yes, just because I've been in Hong Kong, and I see that people do need it, I see the struggles within the corporate industry. You know, I was working with the C level guys. And yeah, they're stressed out and you're not sleeping. I've had private clients who had really big jobs, and they were sleeping pills to sleep, right? And they're struggling mentally, but they're so disconnected from their bodies. And it's, it's not healthy. So I was like, Okay, well, that's what I'm gonna do. I want to bring yoga meditation into the companies. Um, so that was really it. And I think my head hunting experiences just made me kind of like, a hustler in that sense, where I just went up to companies and be like, hey, so do you guys went to yoga classes? Well, good and bad, right? So I'll be like, in my yoga pants, going to meet these guys at like, I don't know, Morgan, Stanley, or whatever it is, and they must be looking at me like, what the heck. Um, so there were times I again, going down and down and spiralling up. They obviously think that I don't know what I'm talking about, or whatever. And, you know, I, I've been through so many downtimes of Okay, well, maybe this isn't right, or like, they obviously think that I'm just a yoga teacher and blah, blah, blah, whatever. And it took a lot to come back to that point of, why am I doing this? Why did I start the company and staying true to that, and knowing that I know what I'm talking about. And I know that I'm good at what I do. And it's taken me years of practice and self assurance, because, you know, there are times even till today I go to class, and I'm like, like, I don't know what I'm doing, you know, or you get a bad review a student complaints or whatever, and it brings you down, right, there was a TED talk that I listened to ages ago, where how they they studied how humans when something bad happens, they kind of sit in it for a much longer time, replaying whatever bad has happened. As compared to when something positive happens. You're like, Okay, well, great. Pat, on the back. I'm good. Yeah. But when they go through something bad and they were rejected, we just sit in it. Right. That's natural human behaviour. So how do we unlearn that, you know, and give ourselves enough credit for doing something good and being good at what we do? So yeah, so with with a locomotive? You know, I think we had a chat before podcast, and it's just constantly going back to the drawing board and seeing if something works, and it doesn't, because, you know, I hit so many walls, and even right now it's hard, right? With the current situation. Oh, yeah. Companies are like, well, that's not our priority right now. Our priorities, getting rid of people or cutting down budgets. I'm like, but the bigger picture is these people are working from home, they're working more than usual. They're stressed-out, they're anxious about the future. Do not think that that's something to address, right. So it's getting better from the time that I started the company, up till today, people are becoming more aware. They want to know more. They they know that mental health is important. They know that it's not just physical health, that is the priority. But there were so many roadblocks, right, from budgets to companies not knowing what wellness is really, they're like, Well, why yoga? I remember a meeting I had ones. And they're the reason they said no to what Locomotive is providing was because the employees decided that the budget and their you know, like committee thing or whatever, they wanted to go for a karaoke session instead. It's just like, so it's very different. And I think it's not so much sometimes about the employees not willing to do it. It's a systemic, right. Sometimes it comes from up top. And the success I found with companies is when, for example, a CEO of aura, you know, like the head of a team is an advocate for it. And then they bring something like that on board. That's when the change happens. Yeah. And we've had great successes, but we've also had to learn a lot of lessons, right, in terms of what we're providing, is this actually what companies want? Yeah. And, you know, coming back here, you're like, of course for us are like, Yes, of course. Every company has to have yoga classes, everyday meditation classes, everyday breath work, but it's hard for someone on the other side. Yeah, right. And we've all been on the other side. Before years ago, if someone came to my company, I was like, yeah, we have yoga classes every day. We're gonna be breathing for an hour. I'll be like, absolutely not.
Ryan Spence:Oh, definitely. Without a doubt it's a Yeah, you need to you need someone who has had the experience and come out the other side as you say to you be that advocate to say, but this, this really works because there is still, as big as Yoga is now. And as big as meditation and mindfulness is now, there is still a lot of scepticism. Absolutely. And that's the breath. I mean breath work is it's kind of lower down because it's still quite new in terms of that global scale. And you sort of mentioned breath work and people like what you're going to teach people to breathe. They kind of look at you like you're crazy. Yeah,
Sheranne:exactly.
Ryan Spence:This is now is when this is needed more. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of counterproductive to say we don't have budget, because now is when it's needed more you need your employees to be productive, to be healthy to be happy. And giving this to them will do that.
Sheranne:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Spence:But stress is a key one. Because Yeah, in the industry is that while the industry that you're in the industry that I was in, it attracts, or people expect it to be the sort of high achieving type A personalities, you you do the deals, you do the deals. That's kind of what it's all about. Yeah, stress is kind of just something that you live with. It's almost like a badge of honour, and it has been for so long. And while those conversations are slowly changing in the public arena, I still think within the corporates themselves, there is still this sort of scepticism, it's kind of like, well, I did it this way. Why won't you just do it the same way? This is how it's supposed to be. This is how it works. Yeah. Have you kind of found that sort of resistance as well, in your meetings that you've had?
Sheranne:Yeah, you know, it's, I think it's a lack of what I've realised at the end of it, it's there's a lack of education around stress, for example, people think that stress only happens when you're at your desk, and the deal didn't come through or you have so much work, and you know, you're not sleeping and things like that. And if you're not stressed-out, you're not working hard, you know, and it's, I don't know if it's something particularly in Asia, but it's no, it's global. Hmm, yeah. And I think people need to change that mindset of what stress is because you know, when your body is in constant stress mode, when it's in constant fight or flight, it's it's not healthy, right is detrimental to the body to the mind, it actually makes you less productive at work. Oh, yeah. And so yeah, I do meet with a lot of resistance with for example, with HR, right, sometimes, these type of wellness programmes go through HR, it depends on the companies, and HR wellness is at the end of the list, right? HR has a role. I mean, I might be wrong in this, but it's hiring the best person for the least amount of money kind of thing or other priorities.
Ryan Spence:HR, it could be a whole other podcast in itself. I won;t go there. But
Sheranne:yeah, exactly. And so you know, when I, when I speak to them about wellness, they have no idea. So it's almost like we needed to spoon feed them what they needed to do, but even then they're like, Well, actually, the take a break, wasn't that great for yoga? And they don't understand the long term benefits if that. And so even if you say that, okay, you know, it can help with stress levels and managing any sort of mental issues with employees. It's hard for them to see. And I think one big thing is that the change with yoga, like we talked about, a lot of it was not as tangible. Yes, as we know, right. It's a ongoing process of growth and healing. But with these type of things, especially when trying to convince a company to purchase a package of whatever yoga, meditation classes cetera, if they can't see a tangible change immediately, or an increase in productivity immediately, they're like, well, this doesn't work. Yes, yeah. So I think that was a big thing where, you know, there was almost no way for me, especially when I started business on my own, I didn't have an app, I didn't have something to track your thing or whatever. It was hard to convince these guys to be like, no, trust me, it will work. You might not see it now. But you will. So yeah, definitely met with a lot of resistance from companies.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. Because we're learning more about the brain and how that works. And the nervous system and all those sorts of things. You know, it's based in science. Yeah. But as you say, without that sort of, Okay, if I pay you X amount of dollars, what's going to be my dollar return? I guess you can't measure it in that, you know, you're measuring in your employees, how do they feel? How are they acting? Are they more productive? Are they happier? I mean, because happier people will be more productive. Yeah, people don't go to work to do a bad job generally. But people go to work and they may do a bad job because they haven't had enough sleep. They are stressed and are overworked. They don't have a life outside the office. Yeah. And by giving them the tools to effectively take care of their own wellness. I mean, it doesn't have to be that they're all going to leave and go off and be yoga teachers.
Sheranne:Exactly.
Ryan Spence:It just means that they're gonna... you said something earlier about being not being aware of your body. It's that awareness. Yeah. Because what I found is once once I started practising consistently, I became more aware of my body, okay, if I do this, my body does that. And it is Oh, it doesn't really like this, or this part is always a bit tight or this part or, and that awareness then helps you to kind of almost self medicate in a sense, you know how to do things that work for you rather than work against you.
Sheranne:Exactly. And I think it's this whole journey of, again, getting to know yourself better, or at least I know, that's what I'm trying to do withmy practice in with everything that I do now, constantly knowing ourselves because we're always there for others, right? Or like, we get to know someone else. But why can't we do that with ourselves, right? And yoga really does help you to do that, like you said, you know, certain poses don't feel great. And you don't actually have to do it, you know, and then being aware, and again, coming back into the body, creating that breath and body connection and just being so in tune with yourself so that you are aligned in that sense.
Ryan Spence:Oh, exactly without a doubt. I I wanted to get to a stage where when I mentioned yoga to people, the first thing that comes back isn't I can't do yoga because I'm not flexible.
Sheranne:Yeah, exactly. I would love that.
Ryan Spence:It's not about that.
Sheranne:Not it's not or like they will start doing something that they know from yoga. It's a it's actually really great. I mean, I love having conversations with people. And they're like, Oh, yeah, like, I can do this. And I'm like, great.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, because I mean, as you say, it's, and I think it was probably day one of my teacher training, but it's self inquiry, right? It's you you on the mat. It's, and once you once you get to that point, your practice changes. I mean, I I know for me, and, and everyone has their own way of practising what works for them. But I used to love going to classes with music. I always had music in classes. And then I started to go to Hom where they didn't have music. And I like, Okay, this is quite interesting. Yeah, I can do this. It's okay. Then I did my teacher training. And I just don't practice with music anymore. Now. It's really weird. If I'm just moving like not going through a sequence, then then I might But yeah, I just, my breath is what I listen to and what I follow. And it's not to say that people shouldn't practice with music, and you have to do what works for you. But I just found it really interesting. That whole shift in my own practice. Exactly. Yeah, it really moves you.
Sheranne:Yeah.
Ryan Spence:So where did the name come from The Locomotive Co.? I wanna, everytime I see the name. I wanna sing the Kylie Minogue song.
Sheranne:I know and so many people actually say, Oh, yeah, how's locomotion going? I'm like Oh, my God, get it right. Um so funny that one I, for some reason, this word has stuck with me for years, I think it was it wasn't the Kylie Minoge song it was from another song that I can't even think of the artist right now. But there was the word locomotive in it. And it just kind of fascinated me, right? So obviously looked up the proper meaning to it, the original the word blah, blah, blah. And essentially what a locomotive is, is it the engine, right, that drives a train forward and the origin of the word, it's the force that creates movement. And so for me, I was like, this is actually perfect, because what I want to bring into the community here in Singapore is to create a change, and movement is yoga, and you're constantly moving. So locomotive actually are our slogan is Change by Movement. So, yeah, I don't know, it's been a word that's been there. And then when I looked up the original of the word, and I was like, This is frickin perfect. So let's just go with it.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, I think it's interesting to hear that story. Because, yeah, changed my moving slogan. I just think he's such a great slogan. It just kind of encompasses so much. Yeah. And I often talk about sort of just being on the train and the trains taking somewhere and you don't, you're not sure if you want to go where the trains going. But you just on it, and you don't get off. Yeah. So this train concept is is with us throughout our life. And so having that sort of changed by movement is Yeah, I think it's a great way. Yeah, no, I really like saying that's a good idea. Okay. So yeah, we talked about that there is this increased awareness in in wellness? It's kind of flowing up and down, have you? I mean, do you only focus in Singapore? Have you seen a difference between Singapore and other jurisdictions? Or was all the work that you've been doing for corporates been in Singapore? Particularly now that we're online a lot?
Sheranne:Yeah. So as of right now, actually, really good question. never really thought about this. I think it's changing everywhere. I you know, I do follow certain businesses on social media and looking at what you're doing online. I think there is a change globally. However, my work has been very focused on Singapore right now. But like you said, it's, there's a huge change right now in terms of the whole online landscape. what that's going to look like I have no idea but I think It's definitely gonna change the way people practice. I have no doubt people still love going to the studio and things like that having your hands on adjustments, although we're not allowed to touch anyone right now. Yeah. But um, having that, you know, being online, it's almost there are no boundaries. Right? So it's, it's great, obviously, maybe more competition by being in the wellness industry, any sort of competition is great, right? We're out there to help people and bring the work to them. And what, you know, our journeys, our stories are, you know, and anything that we can help. Yeah, help better someone else's life is, is great. So it's, yeah, I think there are endless opportunities right now and endless boundaries. But with our work specifically, or for me, even with teaching, it's just been focused online, although there was, you know, a company who did a meditation course with one of our meditation, meditation teachers from locomotive, and it was like an APAC thing. So we had the teams from Japan, and Asia, whatever, joining in on the same call, which was really nice to see, because it was one of the options where the whole team was together, and they don't really see each other. And, yeah, so I think companies should actually just kind of take that to their advantage, right. And, you know, do a class on zoom, a meditation session on zoom, a talk on zoom and have the global team join in? Or what APAC whatever. I think it's a great opportunity for companies to really kickstart their Yeah, their wellness programmes.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, yeah, I guess it's a fascinating time. Because, I mean, I sort of started all this, just in the midst of the pandemic. So yeah, for me, the online landscape is, it's new, but it's kind of what I know, in terms of trainee, getting to the yoga and wellness space, and instead of a business, but it's opened up so much, and you're saying that about them to potentially be more competition. And what I really liked is that I connected with so many people globally that I wouldn't have connected with, if we're still doing things in the old way. And everyone is really supportive. It's kind of like someone said something to me, I think it was last week, in the course I was on where if we operate from a place of abundance, suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And things to say no to you. And I didn't know that. That's kind of what I was doing before. But now like, Yeah, that's it. Because if you just sort of help people out, share people, I mean, promote what they're doing kind of tell people about what they're doing etc., etc. without expectation. It just creates this whole beautiful stream of things happening. You know what I mean, that you would have expected.
Sheranne:And that's what we're all here for right. We're all here to help each other out. Like we're all on the same journey together, maybe at different points in that journey. But we're doing the same thing called life together. Why not do it together? You know, and I think, especially in our work and where we're at right now. Yeah, why not? Help? I think there is so much beauty in that. And like you said, when you act from a space of abundance, you're just going to attract more abundance? Yeah. Right. Than acting from a space of lack. So yeah,
Ryan Spence:yeah, exactly. And, and speaking of online, um I can see, that, you're sort of starting to grow your online presence.
Sheranne:I'm trying to Yeah.
Ryan Spence:How are you? How are you? finding that? I guess for a lot of people, as I said, before, 2020 like, there were people who did online, and some people who didn't, they maybe had a presence, but yeah, whatever. And now everyone's having to kind of really figure out I mean, I know you're like me trying to figure out Instagram has been a hilarious journey. Yeah, story for another day. But
Sheranne:no, but yours looks great. By the way,
Ryan Spence:getting there, getting there it's all a process, I've made many mistakes. But yeah, it's, you kind of have to now so I've seen now that you sort of have started to post the odd thing, and it looks like you're sort of you know what I mean, you've got some new photos, you're sort of ramping up. Sort of a whole
Sheranne:Yeah, um, I honestly, I just, this is the thing, I just realised that it's, I'm growing through this process, right. And I never, I really wasn't the whole like, Instagram type of person. And I, even when I was in fashion, I was always behind the camera, I will be styling things, I will be kind of like designing things, but I would never be in front of the camera. And so that was a big thing. Because when you're trying to be online, you have to be all there right as your face especially when you're representing yourself and as yoga teachers. We are our own business, right. And it's, it's a learning curve for me. I you know, I never enjoyed posting photos and thinking of these captions. And it really never was my thing to be like a yoga influencer kind of thing right? And right now I think I'm still trying to figure out really what is the core message that I want to bring to people through through my online presence, right? I know that I would always be teaching yoga, this is something I know I'll do forever. And I know that with my breathwork training, that's something also I want to start bringing two people taking people through breathwork journeys. But I think I'm slowly trying to piece together Yeah, like, what do I stand for it, you know, I want to create, again, still a space where we're creating mental health awareness or creating a space where people feel like they can speak about these things. Or maybe pain I've met a lot of students that struggle with pain, or all of a sudden they have an injury, and they, they're debilitated by it, right. And it's so sad to see and I've been through that, and I know it so I'm like, how do I now bring that message across where it's okay to feel pain, it's okay to to be in pain, or there are days where you're in bed, because you can't move and not to let yourself feel guilty about that. Right. So I think for me, as much as I'm trying to figure that out, it's i'm also going through my own journey into Yeah, what really is the message that I'm bringing across, because I don't just want to, um, yet post photos for the sake of posting photos, even though yes, sometimes social media, that's what you have to do just to be president. But I think there's a deeper layer that I'm trying to get into. And sometimes I'm like, Oh, my God Sheranne, are you just like overthinking all of this now, just fucking post a photo already. And it's hard. So yeah, like, I think it's a fine balance, you know, online and technology has great benefits. And I think if you know how to use it right, with integrity, it's gonna bring you really far. But there was I remember years back, when when I first moved back to Singapore, it was this whole big debate within the yoga industry of like, how much do you post on social media? What do you post on social media? As a yoga teacher? Should you be saying this, blah, blah, and there was this disparity within the within the yoga community? I was like, That's not right, is it? And you know, and teachers are getting attacked for seeing something that is in that Yogi, or like, they post something, and you know, they're not eat, they're not vegan, or they're vegan, but then they see all these stuff. And it's just like, God, it's it's such hard work, you know, maybe that also made me steer clear away from that, you know, like social media for a while, but, ya know, I think it's good because it's a channel in which people can come to for, you know, content. Yeah, advice. That, you know, interaction, I think in a world that, you know, especially being isolated, we crave interaction more than ever, maybe some more than others. I mean, I really enjoyed lockdown.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, I did too.
Sheranne:I know I really enjoyed is going in where it's in, you know, doing the trainings and having my meditation, my yoga every morning. But we're all humans and where we need interaction and relationships. So social media has created a great platform for us to connect. And like you said, you wouldn't have met all these other people, if not for what's going on right now. Oh,
Ryan Spence:yeah. Yeah, it's er technology is an interesting one. Because it's been really good in lots of ways. But and it's funny, you talking about the debates about what yoga shouldn't shouldn't pose because it's still going on. I mean, without without sort of getting into into the merits or whatever. Although you mean people can can make their own concrete conclusions. But there's the whole q anon thing recently, which I haven't really been following, but the people who are peddling conspiracy theorists as their theories who were coming from the yoga and wellness world, and then there's been the backlash against them, which, okay, I will upon them that one, which I think is right. Talking nonsense. Yeah. There's the whole cultural appropriation of yoga, which is, which is really big, big at the moment, again, important discussions to be had. But yeah, there is that particularly as somebody new coming to it like myself, but but also for anybody else. What do you say, and you can overthink what you say, because you don't say the wrong thing, and then be attacked, you know, and then you say nothing. And I think it just comes down to just being yourself exactly, say something. And so when someone atacks you you can decide if they have a point. And if they do have a point, you can learn from that. And if they don't, then you're doing you right?
Sheranne:And again, it's a process of learning and growing. And then when someone attacks you or not, you question what's going on, right. And so one big thing that I'm working on right now is triggers, which is a whole different topic. But when I'm triggered by something, for example, it's just to ask why, like, Why Why are you going through that trigger, and it's always a lesson to be learned from within, right? And I think with the whole social media and online thing, I think I don't know, I'm also learning as I go, but like to try and be as authentic as you can, and you are going to make mistakes. We're never going to please everybody, right? Even as teachers, we go into teach, not everyone's going to love that class, and you just learn from it. And I think one thing that I've realised recently for myself, the reason why I was, you know, not putting myself out there as much as I should have been, or you know, even in the past, doing videos and putting online, it's because of that fear of rejection, and being attacked, right? So I stood behind this wall, and thinking that I'm safer behind all of this, as compared to putting myself out there. And this is what I'm trying to unlearn now to be more present. And if I make a mistake, if I say something that's wrong, or if people disagree with me, which will happen, then that's just something that I have to learn and hold my ground, right. As long as I'm being true to what I'm putting out there. I think that's what matters the most and doing it with integrity. So
Ryan Spence:yeah, the unlearning thing is, is really interesting, because I don't know if you find the same thing coming from your corporate background, but definitely coming from a law background. You as a lawyer, you're generally risk averse. And you generally, err on the side of perfection. So you stress over every comma, every full stop. You want to make sure what you send out is perfectly right. Yeah, and go over and over and over and over it. And actually, I had to unlearn that to be able to do what I'm doing now. Because there is no real playbook. Because everyone does things in their own way. And that's the beauty of it. But it's also something which takes some time to get used to. Yeah. And if you can get over that hurdle, then you can then start to sort of move along. And sort of
Sheranne:I think that's when you can be your most authentic self. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. So let's move on to what we can't do at the moment. The retreat. Retreat. So yeah, I went on that retreat. October I think it was 2019. Over in Bali, which was, which was amazing. Completely different part of Bali to what I've been to before. Yeah. And yeah, it was it was really well put together a really good programme. What made you want to do the retreat? do enjoy it? Would you do it again?
Sheranne:Yeah. Um, yeah, absolutely. I think I definitely enjoyed it. So both my business partner and I, Jules, who you met, she's in Bali right now. We, Yeah, I think it was just something that we've always wanted to do to kind of like, give people a space where they can unwind, and just, yeah, let loose, especially, you know, in Singapore, and you're working hard, as you know, yourself, just to create a space of Yeah, like unwinding. And at the same time learning about yoga. And I think a goal for us with that particular retreat was to get to the roots of yoga, not just the awesomeness, but really a little bit more behind it, the philosophy of yoga, what actually extends for why Yoga is a way of life is not just a physical practice. So really just going down to the very foundation of, of yoga, and you know, as with everything, when you have a strong foundation, then everything starts to grow and become strong. So yeah, I think for Jules and I, we've just always talked about, yeah, let's just do a retreat and bring a group of people together. And at that time, the end goal was always to create corporate retreats. So to just bring teams to space and do your team bombings and blah, blah. And that's actually our first retreat where it was just kind of more B2C, right? We're just getting people, whoever that wanted to come. And yeah, Bali was kind of a no brainer, because Jules is from there. And it was, it was great fun. I think both Jules and I learned so much about it. But I think for me, it's actually I think it was for both of us where we were just with people the entire time. Yeah. After the retreat. I remember on the way back in the van, both of us literally just passed out all the way back to Canggu. And we were like, right, tomorrow, we're doing absolutely nothing. So we just went to the beach, late day literally sat on a beanbag for hours and did nothing because it was so much. So much.
Ryan Spence:You give so much
Sheranne:Yeah. you know, I think now that you're teaching you understand it to be more like oh, but you're only teaching like, an hour class or like you only have two classes a day. I'm like, you have no idea. But it's a lot of energy that's being exchanged and stuff, right. So but it was super rewarding. I think for us that was kind of like a point where, yeah, like even as a teacher, you're like, holy shit, I just did that. Like I just did a retreat and you know, as a student you never released from Yes, like, I never really thought that I would have ran a retreat and people actually come to learn from me like it's so It was so rewarding and so humbling, and I would definitely do it again. Although right now it's it's tricky. Yes. Never really no, we actually had one plan for this year. So yeah, also the alila. But this time in ouput. But obviously, that's just not going to happen right now. So hopefully, in the near future, something would happen again. Um, but it was an amazing experience. I, I thoroughly enjoyed hosting you guys, and just being there with everybody. And yeah, it was great.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. And it was the testimonials that you got, obviously, you know, that for us, the students, we all really enjoyed it as well, I think, what I liked about it. And it's funny now, because I'm going to sort of maybe kind of contradict myself, but I remember, I looked at retreats before they be interesting. But what always annoyed me was that they always like, yes, and the menu will be wrong, it will be vegan. And at the time, being a committed meetings, I was like, I'm not going somewhere where I'm being told what to eat. Yeah. And I remember I spoke to you guys about it over dinner one night. And what you said, I really liked is that you want people to kind of come and feel welcome and to enjoy themselves, they're there to enjoy it. You don't want them to feel like they're being dictated to. And why I say and I'm going to contradict myself is because it was only a few weeks after that retreat that I actually became vegan. Yeah, And I'm still vegan now. But having that sort of space and not having that was interesting. And I've been trying to think if I was running a retreat, now, would I do the same thing? Because being vegan and having the thought process that I've got, It's this real? For me a real tension? Yeah, but I think it's definitely the right thing to do. And I think that's how you kind of get more people in it's kind of making it accessible. Yeah, and not sort of saying, well, you can come but you can't.
Sheranne:Yep. So yeah, this is a very tricky one. And I've had this conversation with a lot of people right as, as a yogi, like, you're vegan, or, you know, you're a vegetarian and stuff like that. I think, you know, we're all at different points in our journey. Once again, you can be a yogi, but you use you still eat meat, I've known people that even with their body types, they were vegan for a long time, and then they got sick. And then they needed certain things from meat and the reason behind being vegan, I fully support and I you know, honestly, I? Yeah, like I think it's, it's the right thing to do, right. And this is gonna like rile a lot of people up and things like that. So we won't go
Ryan Spence:It's alright I'm used to riling people up
Sheranne:But I think, do what feels right for you again, doing it authentically. For us. The reason why we gave that option was because yes, we wanted people to choose what they wanted. And it's not that we didn't stand for being vegan or a vegetarian I think even Jules is, she was like, fully vegan for the longest time. And, you know, one thing that I actually read a book called Embodied Enlightenment recently, and she was talking about how, how do we live in our current climate, as humans who are we're the most advanced we've ever been, we are we have all the technology etc. But we're also on a spiritual path. And well, to be fair, we're all spiritual beings living this human experience, as Brene Brown said, but you know, with this, but what she said was that you can be vegan, you can eat meat or whatever, it's a conscious choice, but make it a conscious choice. Yeah. And know the reason why you're doing it. Right. So as long as you put into context, why you're doing it, or for example, if you do choose to eat fish or meat, to acknowledge that, you know, maybe even say a word of gratitude for an animal that died for you, because a lot of things not just eating, but what we do now we're doing it unconsciously, oh, yeah. Right. So what she was talking about, which I, I found really interesting was to bring more consciousness to your actions. And if you're choosing to eat meat, why? And if you really do decide to go for it, then say thank you. And, yeah, so if you do run a retreat, and you decide you're deciding on the menu, you'll figure it out. At that point, you will just, you know, your gut will tell you what to do.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, I think so. And it's a fine balance because I mean, I'll probably talk more about this in future episodes, but I was very much, I am Yes, I'm gonna be vegan but not me one of those annoying vegans in inverrted commas
Sheranne:Not preachy
Ryan Spence:yeah, but I, I must confess that I find myself biting my tongue a lot more these days.
Sheranne:I think when you believe in something so bad and for as Yogi's, we believe in non harming, that's the reason why we exactly you know, believe in not eating meat, right as a non harming aspect. And if you feel so passionately about that, of course, you're going to try and convince people it's like hell, you know, we as teachers, we tell people that Yoga is good for you, right? And not everyone's gonna want to hear it. But I think if it makes you feel like you've done the right thing, then that's all that matters. Yeah, exactly.
Ryan Spence:And I think what you said about making a conscious choice is key, because that's one of the things that I got from yoga, and I'm sort of trying to kind of get across to people in this podcast is to live live a life with intention. And so you're intentionally doing whatever it is that you're doing. You're not reacting to a situation, you're not just kind of doing it blindly. Because we do lots of things where we don't question Oh, absolutely. You know, and this is the last thing I'll say about veganism for this. But I know for me once I decided to make that shift, and I started to think, but why do I never really question? Yeah, me? Is that just something that you just deal as they're brought up doing it? Everybody else did it? Everything was geared towards it? Yeah. But when I started to question it, that's when the shift happened. Yeah. So yeah, as long as people just as you say, think about why they're doing something, and make their peace, that they're doing it from a conscious place, then, you know, then that's fine. I think so. Yeah. So yeah, I know, a lot of people are gonna be shouting at me about that
Sheranne:I know, we're gonna have a whole other episode.
Ryan Spence:I'm fully fully expecting that. Yeah, it's fun. I can live with my choice. So how do you balance being a yogi and an entrepreneur? I must, I'm finding that a little bit difficult in terms of trying to advance my learning on the business side of things and do certain things and courses etc. But that also maintain my daily practice and my meditation, my breath work, because I think both are important. But it's, it is sometimes kind of hard to get that. But yes,
Sheranne:Oh, it's so hard. And I'm glad that you brought that up. Because I'm so trying to figure that out. And I think for the longest time, when I started locomotive, it was, I was kind of doing a 50/50 on both ends, I was burning the candle on both ends, you know, and I just felt so tired and so burnt out, I'll be, you know, at that point, with yoga, when I first started teaching, I'll be doing like 15 to 20 classes a week, while I'm still trying to figure out how to grow locomotive and meeting all these guys in the companies trying to convince them that they need to do yoga meditation. So actually, it was only very recently that I kind of decided that for this year 2020, I am going to focus on myself and upskill myself, so I was going to do my next teacher training, I was going to try and you know, do another course in something. And that ended up being breath work for me over lockdown, because I wasn't able to do my next teacher training. And obviously, with COVID, everything shifted, but I had actually decided with my business partner to kind of, Okay, put locomotive on hold, because for 2019 was a great year for us. And we did a lot of things hit a lot of milestones. But I think we also need it to kind of reassess what we're bringing out to the companies and what they're actually looking for. So again, we kept going back to drawing board. And it's hard to balance, I think. I would say, Don't stress yourself out too much, right? Because I go through this cycle of when I'm not teaching, for example, I had this constant anxiety inside me where I was like, I need to be doing something with locomotive, I need to be speaking companies, I need to be figuring out what to do with the website I need to develop. And I, you know, there are days where I got so anxious because of that stress that I ended up doing nothing. Yeah. And I was like, Okay, sure. And that's not healthy. So I think for me, I had to consciously tell myself, it's okay, if I'm not teaching and I'm not doing anything with locomotive, I can take a day off, I can go to the pool and just read a book, you know, and that's completely okay. So, right now, I think I'm finally at a place where, okay, with locomotive, it's there, I'm not actively business developing, or whatsoever right now, if companies need us, we are still there. But my goal was to focus on myself, you know, doing this whole social media thing, or just really building up myself as a brand, and also learning what I want to provide. So with, if I have a clear vision, if Okay, well, I want to just teach yoga full time and do breath work. That's what I'm going to do for right now. And I'm not going to stress myself out with other things with the business because it is hard and we need to, we also need a break from it as teachers, even with the practice, I don't know if you feel it, but there are days where I'm practising and I'm not actually a student in that practice. I'm trying to get inspired. I'm trying to learn more things, you know, on your sequence for the next class. Exactly. Right. So I have to There are certain days where I practice and I'm like, Okay, this is just my practice. I'm a student, and I'm practising for me. And that's it. And, yeah, it's never gonna be a perfect balance. Because there's always going to be something in the back of your head being like I need to practice. But I also need to do this course to learn something. But maybe just give a day and a week to, you know, really check out from all of it. And I recently I was just, I told my friends, I was like, You know what, I just need a yoga detox. As ironic as that sounds, I'm like, I am not going to practice yoga, I'm not gonna teach, I'm just gonna take a break from all of it. Because when you're living and breathing, and it's your work, and you're teaching every single day, it can get a bit tricky to find that break or balance.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, I think that's the misconception. Is that a, that Yoga is a cure all and will cure everything about you? And also, that if you're, if you're a yoga teacher, that you're always positive, you've got everything figured out. And this is like, no, we're, we're real people. Yeah. It's not like we're going off and sitting on a mountain and sort of practicing in isolation.
Sheranne:I wish I would love to do that. I mean, I
Ryan Spence:love, that's one of the things I loved about my teacher training, although it was in Singapore, and it would be nice to have been elsewhere. It was still this immersion in yoga, basically, 20 days, that's all you thought about, but it's not the real world. You have to function in the real world. You get angry, you know, I mean, you have to stand in queues, you get annoyed. People don't do what they're supposed to do. And all those sorts of things still happen to you. Yeah, it's just that you. You're now aware of them. You have the tools to to deal with them. Exactly.
Sheranne:Yeah, I know. Sometimes you were like, oh, but like you were mad this or like, you're stressed out like why I'm like, dude, like, I just teach yoga. I'm not like, I'm not Buddha. Yeah. Exactly. I want to be enlightened. Exactly. This is why we're doing the yoga.
Ryan Spence:Yes, it will be. So these misconceptions. I'm trying to demystify them here. So we're coming towards the end, but I've still got a few more questions. I'm big fan of morning routines. Yes. Do you have one? Yes. And what is it,
Sheranne:um, I wake up, and I meditate. And that's the first thing I do. And then I make my bed. Okay. Then I go brush my teeth. And during lockdown, especially, I was so strict with this, because there was no routine whatsoever, you kind of create your own routine. So I sleep with my phone on aeroplane mode. And in the morning, I'll wake up all meditate. First thing, make my bed, brush my teeth, not turn on my phone, I'll read a book or journal. Even if it's just reading a page, just kind of like, get in tune with myself. And if I actually during lockdown, I would meditate and then I'll practice. Although right now it's a bit tricky. And then only after I've done all of that, would I turn my phone on? Okay. So that is kind of my little morning routine is not super fancy. But it was just one of those things that really kept me sane during lockdown. And even now, like, I have to meditate. The you know, once I start Yeah, because if I don't, then it's kind of like in the back of my head and like, I haven't done it and I'm not in check. I'm not grounded. And there are times where I literally have to sit on the floor. So that I'm like, and tell myself to ground down. Yeah. Because otherwise my day is just like chaos. And so yeah, that's that's my morning routine.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, you notice that shift when you don't meditate? I was I got into that habit of meditating and practising every morning. Yeah. And the last sort of couple of weeks. That's a bit out of whack with the difference in lack of sleep. And yeah, I definitely, definitely notice a difference. Yeah, right. Like, when I can get back onto my routine. I'll just feel a lot more a lot more sensitive. A lot more in control of my day.
Sheranne:Yeah, exactly. And I think like, that's what all these people who've been doing researches on having a morning routine, or like waking up at five in the morning answering all that stuff. There's so much so much truth to it. Yeah, so I always tell people, because I have a lot of friends and students, students ask like, do you meditate every day? When How is the best time blah, blah, blah, how long do you do it for? I would say if you're just starting on your meditation journey, even just, you know, a minute of sitting up in your bed, and just breathing that conscious breathing of, you know, just inhaling from the base of your spine to the crown of your head back down, just do it even five times. That in itself is already meditation. And that's going to help you tap into your body into your breath. And you're going to be more conscious throughout your day. So Exactly, yeah, if you're just starting out meditation, it's not this big, giant thing where you can't do it. And people get so overwhelmed by the word meditation, but it's just as simple as tuning in. But I think that's where people find it hard to because they don't want to be aware of what's going on inside sometimes, right? But yeah, just five deep breaths in the morning. The moment you wake up, will make a tremendous difference.
Ryan Spence:I think that's why breath work is important and is going to be, is going to be quite popular because meditation as you say, it's like with yoga. Everyone says I'm not flexible enough meditation, everyone says, Oh, I have too much going on my mind. I can't sit still. But with breath work, everybody breathes, right? Everybody has to breathe. So it's probably a slightly easier thing for them to get to. Yeah. And then if they can start to increase the length that they focus on that breath for, and hopefully that will sort of, they'll fall into sort of meditation without realising that they're doing it. Exactly. They'll be getting those benefits of just that, that that sort of focus that stillness. Yeah. Not always being on the go.
Sheranne:Yeah. And I think, you know, with, yeah, you're not flexible, and you can't do yoga. But that's why we do the yoga so becomes like, so bored. That's why we do the meditation to calm our crazy minds down. Yeah, but again, it's it's a process, it is an ongoing journey. There are days where meditation feels super easy, or yoga feels great. But there are days where I remember times where I was just crying on the mat, because I was in so much pain, or it just you just felt like you weren't there, or meditation was so hard. Your mind's just crazy. But um, someone was saying that, you know, if, if you find that you're really stressed, or you don't have five minutes for a meditation, then you need an hour of your meditation. Right? Yeah. Which is so true. Yeah, so
Ryan Spence:what events do you have planned for the future? If anything? I know we're, we're still sort of kind of in a lockdown. So
Sheranne:yeah, um, to be honest, not much. I think what I'm really excited for is to just get my offline breathwork training done. So I've completed the online training, I need to do the in person intensive before I'm properly certified to, you know, host journeys. That might be the first thing that I'll do once I you know, like, once I finished training and to host a breathwork journey for people. Other than that, not many big events, just cuz Yeah, it's it's kind of unpredictable right now. Even with the retreat that we were planning for this year, we had to cancel that. And who knows what's going to happen right now? So nothing major, I would say just, yeah, I'm really excited about the breathwork. Training and just being able to, to Yeah, hold that space for for people who need it. Yeah
Ryan Spence:And on the podcast, trying to direct people towards their purpose. Yeah. Have you found your purpose? Do you think and if so, what what is?
Sheranne:Um, I think I'm closer. So yeah, like I asked me, it's a big, yeah. billion dollar question is not an easy one. No, I would think so. I think, um, I definitely do question it sometimes. But I've realised that it really is helping people kind of be on that journey in their own way, and helping people through yoga and meditation and breath work. Um, yeah. Like I said, you know, it's weird to say that I'm going to be doing something forever, because forever is like, such a long time. But I know that teaching will always be a part of me. And that's, I think that's what I'm here for, you know, to share my journey, my story and to help these guys wherever they're at through the practice of yoga. So, yeah, I think finding your purpose is such a big thing, because there are days where, you know, I wake up and I'm like, Fuck, maybe I'm not meant to be teaching yoga, right? And like, Oh, yeah, this is gonna be funny, right? So I went to see a tarot card reader, because I'm so Yogi. woodsy an astrologer tarot card reader or a reader and all that. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know all the horoscopes and things. I don't know about horoscopes, by the way. But anyway, my friend want to see a tarot card reader was like, yeah, sure, you know, I'll go with you. And then I went to this reading, and never done in my life. And so, um, and yeah, we're talking and you basically ask questions based on the cards that you pull. And so I told tarot reader, I was like, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm teaching yoga, and this is what I do. And she goes, You know, I don't feel like that's your that's your purpose. I think you should. She's like, you're working too hard for your money. I sit there and I was like, why she goes, Yeah, you know, like you. She literally said, You've been doing this for a couple of years. Now. You've had your fun. Maybe it's time to like, go to
Ryan Spence:Oh my goodness! It's like your parents talking to you.
Sheranne:It's just like, oh my god. Now you're gonna make me question my entire life. And if you're a tarot card reader, you're telling me I'm not living my true purpose. And I should be like, I don't know, whatever she said I should be. And I was like, No, this is where I was like, You know what? You're full of shit.
Ryan Spence:Yeah, I'll discard that.
Sheranne:And I was like, No, I I think I know what I'm doing. And I think I'm here. And And hey, maybe that will change. I don't know, you know, maybe I'll yeah, just end up doing retreats or whatever, but I think yoga will always be a part of my work. Yeah. So that I would say, is my purpose? Yeah. So
Ryan Spence:Cool. yeah, that's good, good answer. And final question as a corporate escapee yourself what three tips would you give to people? Like you were in that sort of environment? who are trying to sort of figure out what to do what to do next?
Sheranne:Um, I think really to, not just to trust yourself, but, you know, take that leap of faith, right? Do it now, especially if there's this little voice inside you that that's telling you try something different. Go for it. Because you know what, the corporate are always going to be there, right? If you decide that doing something different, or if it fails, if starting that little business of yours fails, or you realise that actually you don't want to teach, at least you've done it, you've gone through that process and journey and learn and you will learn something from it. You can always go back, you know, and I've had friends who were like, yeah, you know, how did you do that? How did you take the risk robot, and it's so easy. I think as humans, we always, it's easy to be in that comfortable space, right? I think also living in Singapore, it's so easy. And once you get stuck in that space, it's hard to take the risk to be in discomfort. But that's when the most growth happens. When you're uncomfortable. When you're shit broke. When you are questioning everything about your life, when you have almost no money in your bank account. That's when you know, that's when you grow. That's when you try and figure out how to make something happen. And sometimes when things get so hard, you don't really have a choice but to figure it out. You know, so I think for people who are trying to make a change, there's, it's scary, it really is. But I think you got to surround yourself with the right people who give you that support system who encourages you, who doesn't, you know, like question your worth base on this job. Surround yourself with people that support you. And then just Just do it. Because you can always you can always go back. But if you choose to stay where you are in that space of comfort, but you absolutely hate your life. You might be there forever, and you're just gonna be miserable. Right? Um, so just do the thing. Like feel the fear is a quote, feel the fear and do it anyway. Yeah. And yeah, I don't know. Like I it. I think I was very lucky because I had such a great support system around me. My family was very supportive, even when I was like, Yeah, well, I'm just gonna pack up, go to India. And I think for you to, you know, with your wife and your friends supporting you, like it made that transition easier. Yes, of course. Um, so when you have that, yeah, just go for it. And then if you realise that you hate it, you can always go back.
Ryan Spence:Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Do it anyway. Do it now. Yeah, it's definitely, definitely my mantra. Yeah. I have it stuck there on my desk in front of me. Yeah, exactly. There's, always those times where you're saying when I could do this, so I couldn't it's like, well, no, just just do it now. What's the worst that could happen?
Sheranne:Absolutely.
Ryan Spence:So cool. All right. Well, let's go to a few quickfire questions to end off. Okay. So start let's start with practice. Okay, let yourself lead,
Sheranne:lead a lead class and just tell me what to do and how to do it. I love both, but I'm gonna go with lead right now. Especially because I haven't practised in a studio for a really long time. I'm just like, I really missed that. So lead
Ryan Spence:Yeah, no, I agree. I'm finding it hard to get into a studio with the restrictions. Yeah, I really wanna go to a class.
Sheranne:I know. So like, I just want someone to adjust me right now.
Ryan Spence:Tell me what to do. OK, Hong Kong or Singapore?
Sheranne:Oh, this is a hard one. Oh. Hong Kong.
Ryan Spence:Interesting.
Sheranne:I don't know the pros and cons of both of them. Yeah. I love both. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I can't I can't choose this is a hard one. Okay.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. Looking back with hindsight, what's the one piece of advice you would give to your corporate self?
Sheranne:Oh, God. Um, I think it would have just been to take things a little bit more lightly, or, you know, just to take a breath and know that that's even if a deal doesn't come through, even if I didn't place a person, like, who cares, right? Yeah, like, well, we're still gonna, we're still here. We're still living like, it's not that big of a deal. like things are not that big of a deal. That's what I would tell myself.
Ryan Spence:As I used to say to myself in law, no one died.
Sheranne:Yeah, exactly.
Ryan Spence:Exactly. I didn't actually believe it I used to say it to try to convince myself Yeah, I mean, like my mindset now, but yeah, of course not no one died. But yeah, in that environment. It's a little bit different to convince yourself. Yeah, but
Sheranne:yeah, I mean now, especially in the situation we're in right now, like, it puts things into perspective. Oh, right. So I think then yeah, like no one died and you're still here and things are okay. Things will be okay. Yeah,
Ryan Spence:sounds good. Favourite yoga pose and why?
Sheranne:I mean, everyone would say Savasana.
Ryan Spence:Actually, my guest last week said Savasana.
Sheranne:Yeah, ah, let me see him. I want to actually go with Savasana. I'm gonna do a supported Savasana where I have like a bolster under my legs and like my arms on the blocks and like, blankets and things on me more like Iyengar Savasana just because it feels really good at my lower back. Yeah, so that's probably it. Yeah.
Ryan Spence:So in a class music or no music.
Sheranne:I do both. So with a vinyasa practice, I typically play music. Um, but there are sessions where I just feel like no music is right, especially in a hatha practice where, you know, people are newer, and you really got to like, talk about a certain posture and get into the nitty gritty of things. No, music is best for me, but I don't mind both. I really am a music person. And I love sometimes flowing in a really dynamic vinyasa class to great music. Yeah, so both,
Ryan Spence:Do you have a favourite playlists that you pick?
Sheranne:I actually kind of curate my own playlists and like, put music together and that, um, yes, no particular one. I think it just kind of like, I go with how I feel.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. Cool. What's your best, or most worthwhile investment of the last five years?
Sheranne:Over the last five years? What are we 2020? Okay, um, oh, I mean, this would be, Yeah, my teacher training.
Ryan Spence:I said exactly the same thing when I wrote that question. Yeah,
Sheranne:I think it would definitely happen that. Yeah,
Ryan Spence:yeah. Yeah, it's kind of, the fact that it just kind of completely changes your whole mindset and your life yeah, it's a
Sheranne:Yeah, yeah. It made my life so much simpler. Yeah.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. And are there any quotes you refer to often or you live your life by?
Sheranne:Um, I had one. I'm having a brain fart right now. Ah, this is this is tricky. Let me think one thing that I really love was to Brene Brown one where she said, we're all spiritual beings living this human experience. Because I think especially when you're in this, kind of, like, in this industry of the wellness world, sometimes we we get really hard on ourselves, like you said, you know, we're still humans, right? And we're trying to figure out the right thing to do and not do the wrong thing, blah, blah, blah. But we, you know, we are spiritual beings, and everybody has that spirituality in them. A lot of people think that spirituality is this thing to attain or like, a goal to reach, but we all have it in us, and we're just living this human experience where we make mistakes, and we're just trying to figure it out as we go. So I just really connected with that. Um, and I think, you know, another thing is, I don't know if this is a particular quote, anything, but just maybe it's feel a fear and do it anyway. Like, just take that chance and, and put yourself out there. I know, it's hard. And even for me, like the whole social media thing, it's hard because I'm like, Oh, my God, this person is gonna like this photo, or like, I'm gonna say, the wrong things, or this content isn't right, or people are gonna reject me. And these are all very real feelings that we feel right. No one likes to get rejected. But I think it's just kind of leaning into these emotions and fear and just go with it. Because Do you really want to regret it? And I think, you know, we, we're not here forever. Right. And but we don't question our mortality, you know? But when you actually do it's, yeah, like, you're not here forever. So why not just make that change? Or like the one little change in your life to, to better yourself? Maybe. And, honestly, like, you won't, you won't regret it. I think I would be the person who would rather say I tried it, and I failed, than I've never done it before, because I was scared. So it's just literally, like, just go out there and do it. Yeah.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. Yeah. So true. And I think as we were saying, before we started, there are people who many people who won't do it. So if you can just take the step and actually try something. Yeah. You've already won. Yes. It's a case of figuring the rest out as you go along. So
Sheranne:yeah, yeah. And sometimes it's baby steps. It doesn't have to be this drastic change. People think like, Oh my god, I have to quit my job. Drop everything and do this thing. Go to him. Mountains sit there for like a whole month. But like you don't have to, I think it's just making little steps to it, you know, it's like, I don't know, going for a class or like learning something new about starting a business or whatever it is just taking little steps that's going to slowly bring you closer to what that goal is.
Ryan Spence:Right? Yeah. And I think that's why if you can figure out your purpose, or have a sense of what it is, and then just take, it's just one step each day, because you know where you're going. So if you know where you're going, then it's easy to kind of reject the things that don't fit in with your path. If you don't know where you're going, like a lot of us don't, and I certainly didn't, yeah, you'll kind of pick everything, you know, yeah, you'll you'll, you won't kind of think, well, this isn't really fitting with my vision. So I won't do that. Yeah, I'm just kind of, well, I'm kind of expected to do this. So it looks like the right thing to do here or whatever. So yeah, having a clear vision is, is very important. And you'll take some time to get there it does. But But what what we said yoga, meditation, breath, work, all of those things are really good at kind of getting you to, to that point.
Sheranne:Yeah, like finding your purpose is a hard one. I think it took me years and years and years to figure that out. And I think it was lucky to kind of like, fall into the path of yoga, and then it organically happened. But I was chatting to a friend recently to you know, corporate job works and shipping. And he's just like, I don't know what my purpose is. I'm earning all this money, I'm doing a great job, but whatever. But I just feel like I have no purpose. And my advice at that time, I was just like, you know, it's a hard time for everyone right now. And you're questioning and it's great. It's great that people are starting to question that purpose. But we're also creative beings, everybody is a creative being. And when we don't harness that creativity, it it, it becomes depression and anxiety, it doesn't just, you know, become stagnant, it actually goes the other way into depression and anxiety. So we need to harness that creative side of us. I was like, well, just do something that you enjoy, whether it's picking up a new instrument, or you know, like going for boxing or whatever is something that takes you away from your work per se, right. But something that's creative, because when you start to tap again, into that creative being a new, then things will start to unfold. And that's when maybe you get closer to understanding what that that purpose is. But I would say, you know, don't stress out about also like, trying to find it like right now, like you said it. It takes baby steps and it'll happen.
Ryan Spence:Yeah. And they say being aware and questioning is the first step.
Sheranne:Exactly. Yeah.
Ryan Spence:And to kind of bring us down from the heady heights of finding purpose. Yeah. Alo or Lululemon?
Sheranne:Lululemon
Ryan Spence:I think I've lived in Lululemon for the whole of lockdown
Sheranne:I know and it's just like, I'm not so, it's not so much about the brand itself, but it just feels Yeah, it works like I'm in it every day. It doesn't smell it's my first pair has lasted me since day one that I started teaching and I still wear it today. So
Ryan Spence:yeah. Finally, what would be your dream retreat? destination?
Sheranne:Oh, this is a really hard one. Um, I don't know. I'm gonna say somewhere in South America just because I really want to. But I have no idea where yet like, Yeah, what about you?
Ryan Spence:I haven't been South America either. So that'd be that would be on the list.
Sheranne:Maybe one day we can do a retreat together.
Ryan Spence:A retreat? Yeah. I'd be up for that. Yeah. I'll hold you to that. I would love to do that. I mean, Bali's always great. Follies. Always great. That one of the casualties of lockdown for me. Was I was supposed to spend a month in Bali? In June? Yeah. Which I was really looking forward to. And that didn't happen. So yeah, Bali's is always a winner. But But yeah, South America would be Yeah. would be good. So yeah. We'll we'll keep in touch on that point. Yes. Well, thanks. That's been a fantastic conversation. Yeah. Really happy to have got you on. And yeah, having as I said, having you as one of the first people on my list has definitely proven to be the right decision. So hopefully, we will speak again. I mean, once once, there's no no lockdown. You know, your, your breath work qualified, and you're kind of figured out where your current direction is in terms of the business. And, and yeah, I'm still hoping to try and take one of your classes at some point. So
Sheranne:Yeah, do it.
Ryan Spence:But yeah, thanks again. for having me. Yeah, have a good day. Thank you so much. You too. Thanks, Sheranne.
Sheranne:Alrighty.
Ryan Spence:Pearls of wisdom being dropped by Sheranne on The Yoga Den Podcast. I'd love to know what resonated with you. Drop me a line on Instagram@theyogaden_podcast, and@ryanspenceyoga. Let me know what you'll be implementing in your own life going forawrd. As always, if you'd liked the show, hit subscribe. Give us a five star review on Apple podcasts. This really helps in getting the show out to others and let's me know to keep creating more episodes. Pleased to say we got our first five star review last week. Thank you to whoever sent that in, and we look forward to receiving many more. Unitl next time eat plants, give thanks, do yoga. Peace!